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  #1  
Old 02-08-2018, 08:24 AM
F.Verbeek F.Verbeek is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 27
Lightbulb Tiling options and common axes between windows

One more suggestion.
There is an option to tile windows horizontally, vertically or in a grid, which is helpful for comparing measurements presented on the same scale.
If you have many views and windows to compare, the axes and scrollbars take up relatively more space. You can turn them off, but only for both x and y axis together. This maximizes the space for the contents of the graph in the window, but the change in size also means that the graphs are no longer comparable when you want one of them to show the scale.

When tiling horizontally, I would like to show the common Y-axes of the graphs in the leftmost window only. The X-axes should still be shown in all of the windows.
Likewise when tiling vertically, in all windows except the bottommost one, the x-axes should be switched off. The Y-axes should be switched on in all windows.
When tiling in a grid, the leftmost and bottommost windows are the common axis exceptions.

Currently the window size does not depend on the status of axes and/or scrollbar. Nice would be the possibility to tile with the same graph area. In case of the above, the leftmost, and/or bottommost window should be larger by the size of the common axis.

Necessary for this functionality is the possibility to switch off the X and Y scales individually.
The rest could be some sort of macro: horizontal, vertical or grid tiling with common axes.

To make it more beautiful, there should be the possibility to (un)link the scaling settings of the axes between windows in a similar way as they can now between views. Link the Y-axes horizontally and the X-axes vertically.
This can be tricky though, as the spectrum x-axis equals the spectrograph y-axis. Better design a few good scripts, than to leave everything to the user.
E.g. horizontally tiled windows with a spectrogram and a spectrum. Link the frequency, and dB scales to the leftmost window, but leave the time scales unlinked, so you can zoom in to the interesting sound event in your recording. The Y axis scales are shown in the linked to window only.

Concerning the scrollbars and zoom buttons, there's really no point in having a separate set each in window. In the status bar there is lots of unused space. I suggest to remove the inheritance from the Window object and move it one level up to the program window. The kind of operation exists already inside a window where the ownership of the scrollbars is assigned to the active view.

Make it user friendly, e.g. by allowing two or more windows to be active when the scrollbar is operated. This automatically equals and links their axes temporarily.


.. Femme
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2018, 12:04 PM
Michael Pitzrick Michael Pitzrick is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 252
Default Re: Tiling options and common axes between windows

Quote:
Originally Posted by F.Verbeek View Post
One more suggestion.
There is an option to tile windows horizontally, vertically or in a grid, which is helpful for comparing measurements presented on the same scale.
If you have many views and windows to compare, the axes and scrollbars take up relatively more space. You can turn them off, but only for both x and y axis together. This maximizes the space for the contents of the graph in the window, but the change in size also means that the graphs are no longer comparable when you want one of them to show the scale.

When tiling horizontally, I would like to show the common Y-axes of the graphs in the leftmost window only. The X-axes should still be shown in all of the windows.
Likewise when tiling vertically, in all windows except the bottommost one, the x-axes should be switched off. The Y-axes should be switched on in all windows.
When tiling in a grid, the leftmost and bottommost windows are the common axis exceptions.

Currently the window size does not depend on the status of axes and/or scrollbar. Nice would be the possibility to tile with the same graph area. In case of the above, the leftmost, and/or bottommost window should be larger by the size of the common axis.

Necessary for this functionality is the possibility to switch off the X and Y scales individually.
The rest could be some sort of macro: horizontal, vertical or grid tiling with common axes.

To make it more beautiful, there should be the possibility to (un)link the scaling settings of the axes between windows in a similar way as they can now between views. Link the Y-axes horizontally and the X-axes vertically.
This can be tricky though, as the spectrum x-axis equals the spectrograph y-axis. Better design a few good scripts, than to leave everything to the user.
E.g. horizontally tiled windows with a spectrogram and a spectrum. Link the frequency, and dB scales to the leftmost window, but leave the time scales unlinked, so you can zoom in to the interesting sound event in your recording. The Y axis scales are shown in the linked to window only.

Concerning the scrollbars and zoom buttons, there's really no point in having a separate set each in window. In the status bar there is lots of unused space. I suggest to remove the inheritance from the Window object and move it one level up to the program window. The kind of operation exists already inside a window where the ownership of the scrollbars is assigned to the active view.

Make it user friendly, e.g. by allowing two or more windows to be active when the scrollbar is operated. This automatically equals and links their axes temporarily.


.. Femme
Hi Femme,

Thank you once again for some excellent suggestions, which I will pass on to the developers.

Have you noticed the "Hide Time Axis for Spectrogram 1" control the View menu. That control hides the time scale on the active sound view while maintaining the size of the sound view.

I'm not clear what you mean by linkage between "windows". I think that perhaps what you are suggesting is available through linked sound views, as described on pages 62 - 66 of the Raven Pro User's Manual. Have you explored it?

Scrollbars, of course, can be hidden using the "Layout" tab of the left sidebar.

-Mike
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  #3  
Old 02-15-2018, 07:02 AM
F.Verbeek F.Verbeek is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 27
Default Re: Tiling options and common axes between windows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pitzrick View Post
Hi Femme,

Thank you once again for some excellent suggestions, which I will pass on to the developers.

Have you noticed the "Hide Time Axis for Spectrogram 1" control the View menu. That control hides the time scale on the active sound view while maintaining the size of the sound view.

I'm not clear what you mean by linkage between "windows". I think that perhaps what you are suggesting is available through linked sound views, as described on pages 62 - 66 of the Raven Pro User's Manual. Have you explored it?

Scrollbars, of course, can be hidden using the "Layout" tab of the left sidebar.

-Mike
I attached two pictures, but I had to reduce the size quite far. 97 kb forum limit is really not much. I can't reduce it with the software on this computer.

I arranged the sound windows on top of each other covering the Y-axes of the graphs.

Usually per sound window I have a waveform, a spectrogram and a selection spectrum open. I could switch off the time axis for the waveform as this is the same as for the spectrogram, but this gains only little space in vertical direction. The problem is in horizontal direction. The best way to present comparative measurements is to tile the sound windows horizontally. I am interested in the values of the frequencies and intensities so I still need some way of determining, but I don't need it for every graph provided that they are on the same scale. Only the left most graphs showing the common values at the Y-axes would be enough. Every graph still needs their x-axis values though.
Switching off the axes can only be done for both X and Y-simultaneously. Besides that, the area taken up by the graphs changes, so they are not on the same scale anymore.

With linking axes between windows I meant, that you can still zoom in or slide one of the graphs. All the other linked axes follow for the purpose of keeping them on the same scale. Similar to the way that the spectrograph Y-axis is now linked to the spectrum X-axis by default. You can switch that off, but you rarely need that.

So: horizontal tiling with linked y-axes showing only in the slightly wider leftmost window, vertical tiling with linked x-axes showing only in the slightly larger bottom window or grid tiling with all axes linked showing Y axes left and x axes below.
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  #4  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:05 PM
Michael Pitzrick Michael Pitzrick is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 252
Default Re: Tiling options and common axes between windows

Quote:
Originally Posted by F.Verbeek View Post
I attached two pictures, but I had to reduce the size quite far. 97 kb forum limit is really not much. I can't reduce it with the software on this computer.

I arranged the sound windows on top of each other covering the Y-axes of the graphs.

Usually per sound window I have a waveform, a spectrogram and a selection spectrum open. I could switch off the time axis for the waveform as this is the same as for the spectrogram, but this gains only little space in vertical direction. The problem is in horizontal direction. The best way to present comparative measurements is to tile the sound windows horizontally. I am interested in the values of the frequencies and intensities so I still need some way of determining, but I don't need it for every graph provided that they are on the same scale. Only the left most graphs showing the common values at the Y-axes would be enough. Every graph still needs their x-axis values though.
Switching off the axes can only be done for both X and Y-simultaneously. Besides that, the area taken up by the graphs changes, so they are not on the same scale anymore.

With linking axes between windows I meant, that you can still zoom in or slide one of the graphs. All the other linked axes follow for the purpose of keeping them on the same scale. Similar to the way that the spectrograph Y-axis is now linked to the spectrum X-axis by default. You can switch that off, but you rarely need that.

So: horizontal tiling with linked y-axes showing only in the slightly wider leftmost window, vertical tiling with linked x-axes showing only in the slightly larger bottom window or grid tiling with all axes linked showing Y axes left and x axes below.
Hi Femme,

Thank you for sending the screenshot. I think I have a sense of what your concerns are now, and will send your very useful observations on to the developers.

I don't know any way to automate the set up you want, but I can offer a few tweaks that might make life a little easier.

One idea would be to export your selections as clips using "File > Save All Selections In Current Table As", the open all your clips together by selecting "Open as file sequence in one window" in the Configure New Sound Window dialog, and perhaps configuring multiple lines in the "Layout" side panel. I think that would get you close to where you want to be, but maybe not close enough.

Another idea is to reduce the size of the axis labels and ticks using Raven Preferences (see pages 299 - 301 of the Raven Pro User's Manual). The following parameters will reduce the width of the y-axis labels a bit, but perhaps not enough to make it an attractive option.

raven.ui.axis.fontSize=12
raven.ui.axis.tick.major.length=5
raven.ui.axis.tick.minor.length=2
raven.ui.axis.y.tick.label.separation=2

A third option that may or may not serve is to use the Selection Review and Annotation feature, as described in http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/rav....5Features.pdf.

By the way, we will be moving to a more modern Raven Help Forum platform this year, and I'm sure the attachment limit will be less of an issue then. In the meantime, you can send larger files by either supplying the URL for a dropbox or some other web service rather than using attachments. Also, please feel free to address emails to raven_support@cornell.edu, where the the attachment limit is a bit higher.

-Mike
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