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  #1  
Old 12-21-2017, 06:16 AM
F.Verbeek F.Verbeek is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Default Store selection table and other info in Tagging field

Perhaps an idea:
Most (if not all) sound file types contain a Tagging section with user definable fields. If you use that to store the selection table data and all other recording specific data, perhaps some new future requests, you can get rid of the other separate .txt files.
The field gets ignored by normal mediaplayers, so the sound will still play.
Reopening the sound file in Raven automatically brings back the selection table, window settings, FFT setting etc.

The possibility of saving window presets is ok, but I need only a few of them as starting template. After that I may make some changes in settings that are specific for this recording. I don't want to create a new template for each recording to reproduce what I had on screen.

By storing extra data in the sound file, you can also get rid of the Workspace file type. I use it to reopen a sound file with selection table, settings, etc but it is not very useful. You can open only one workspace at the time. If you want to see the results of another recording session side by side, you must reopen the sound file with a pre-saved window preset and the table separately.
If you forget to save the selection table, that information is lost, which is a pity because that may have had the largest amount of work in it.

Having so many file types and so many places in the program where they can be opened or saved, each having their own path parameter is annoying. The network addresses here can easily be 10 to 20 subdirectories deep. Saving or reopening something in a directory of your own choice, requires many tens of clicks each time.
For some reason, recorded sound does not play over the PC speaker from the recording window. (bug?) So if you want to listen back to your recording, you'll need that many clicks two times. If you also want to reproduce the selection table you need to do this 4 times.
If Raven would have used a single path parameter, the selection table would have been stored by default in the same directory as the recording, and reopening would not require the long annoying path clicking.

kind regards
Femme
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:35 AM
Michael Pitzrick Michael Pitzrick is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 241
Default Re: Store selection table and other info in Tagging field

Quote:
Originally Posted by F.Verbeek View Post
Perhaps an idea:
Most (if not all) sound file types contain a Tagging section with user definable fields. If you use that to store the selection table data and all other recording specific data, perhaps some new future requests, you can get rid of the other separate .txt files.
The field gets ignored by normal mediaplayers, so the sound will still play.
Reopening the sound file in Raven automatically brings back the selection table, window settings, FFT setting etc.

The possibility of saving window presets is ok, but I need only a few of them as starting template. After that I may make some changes in settings that are specific for this recording. I don't want to create a new template for each recording to reproduce what I had on screen.

By storing extra data in the sound file, you can also get rid of the Workspace file type. I use it to reopen a sound file with selection table, settings, etc but it is not very useful. You can open only one workspace at the time. If you want to see the results of another recording session side by side, you must reopen the sound file with a pre-saved window preset and the table separately.
If you forget to save the selection table, that information is lost, which is a pity because that may have had the largest amount of work in it.

Having so many file types and so many places in the program where they can be opened or saved, each having their own path parameter is annoying. The network addresses here can easily be 10 to 20 subdirectories deep. Saving or reopening something in a directory of your own choice, requires many tens of clicks each time.
For some reason, recorded sound does not play over the PC speaker from the recording window. (bug?) So if you want to listen back to your recording, you'll need that many clicks two times. If you also want to reproduce the selection table you need to do this 4 times.
If Raven would have used a single path parameter, the selection table would have been stored by default in the same directory as the recording, and reopening would not require the long annoying path clicking.

kind regards
Femme
Hi Femme,

Good to hear from you!

I will pass your suggestion about embedding metadata within audio file headers to the Raven developers. Thank you for taking the time to write them up!

The problem you are having with playback from a Raven recorder is likely due to your computer's system settings. Try setting your PC speakers as default your default playback device. (In Windows, go to Control Panel and select "Sound".)

I agree that clicking through many directory levels can waste a lot of time, as well as promote repetitive stress injury. Here are a few tips for customizing Raven Pro 1.5 that should help.

Many workflows can be simplified by opening up several sound files in one sound view. If you use the paging feature, you can open up any arbitrarily long sound file stream in one view, which saves having to set up the sound view and have separate selection tables for each sound file separately. For more information, see Chapter 7 "Large Datasets" in the Raven Pro User's Manual, as well as the last two instructional videos at https://ravenbioacoustics.wixsite.com/raventutorials.

Multiple files in one sound views can be readily compared by opening several spectrogram views. For more information, see Chapter 3 "Sound Windows: Visibility, Views, Linkage, & Navigation"of the Manual, particularly pages 57 - 68.

Raven Preferences allow the user to set default paths for opening sound files, saving sound files, saving list file, saving exported image files, saving selection tables, saving workspaces, presets, and exported samples. You can also set a default window preset, as well as other types of presets. You can increase the number of recent files and recent folders that appear in "File > Open Recent Sound Files" and "File > Open Recent Folder" in the Raven menu. These settings can save you a lot of clicking through folders. For more information, see Chapter 11 "Customizing Raven", particularly pages 299 - 303.

Since the Raven user interface allows drag and drop, you can save time by opening up Windows File Explorer (or Mac Finder) to view your list files and selection tables, and dragging them into Raven. You can keep several Explorer windows open at once, making it convenient to access several datasets with minimal clicking.

You can reduce the number of paths you need to use during setup by locating things together in your files system. For example, if the root name of your selection table is the name of the sound file it goes with, they will sort together in Windows File Explorer (or Mac Finder). Another way of dealing with this is to make a list file for each set of sound files you have a selection table for, and saving list files with selection tables.

You can activate the autosave feature in Raven Preferences to that it automatically saves each 100 selections by changing

#raven.selectionTable.autoSave.threshold=100

to

raven.selectionTable.autoSave.threshold=100

You can autosave more frequently by changing "100" to a lower number. Note that if the autosave feature is enabled, you will be prompted to name a selection table when you make your first selection.

I hope this helps!

-Mike
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:04 AM
F.Verbeek F.Verbeek is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Default Re: Store selection table and other info in Tagging field

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pitzrick View Post
Hi Femme,

Good to hear from you!

I will pass your suggestion about embedding metadata within audio file headers to the Raven developers. Thank you for taking the time to write them up!

The problem you are having with playback from a Raven recorder is likely due to your computer's system settings. Try setting your PC speakers as default your default playback device. (In Windows, go to Control Panel and select "Sound".)
I don't think this is the problem.
It does play if I open the recorded file in a sound window, but it does not play when it is still in the recorder window. You can see the green bar moving but you hear nothing. This is the same on another computer.

I just did another test. A short recording did play in the recorder.
Next a long recording (to memory) did not play. Then I saved and opened the sound file in a new window, which did play normally. I kept the recorder window open. Now I could play and hear the sound from the recorder window.

In programming terms, it looks like an undefined program parameter to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pitzrick View Post
I agree that clicking through many directory levels can waste a lot of time, as well as promote repetitive stress injury. Here are a few tips for customizing Raven Pro 1.5 that should help.

Many workflows can be simplified by opening up several sound files in one sound view. If you use the paging feature, you can open up any arbitrarily long sound file stream in one view, which saves having to set up the sound view and have separate selection tables for each sound file separately. For more information, see Chapter 7 "Large Datasets" in the Raven Pro User's Manual, as well as the last two instructional videos at https://ravenbioacoustics.wixsite.com/raventutorials.

Multiple files in one sound views can be readily compared by opening several spectrogram views. For more information, see Chapter 3 "Sound Windows: Visibility, Views, Linkage, & Navigation"of the Manual, particularly pages 57 - 68.

Raven Preferences allow the user to set default paths for opening sound files, saving sound files, saving list file, saving exported image files, saving selection tables, saving workspaces, presets, and exported samples. You can also set a default window preset, as well as other types of presets. You can increase the number of recent files and recent folders that appear in "File > Open Recent Sound Files" and "File > Open Recent Folder" in the Raven menu. These settings can save you a lot of clicking through folders. For more information, see Chapter 11 "Customizing Raven", particularly pages 299 - 303.

Since the Raven user interface allows drag and drop, you can save time by opening up Windows File Explorer (or Mac Finder) to view your list files and selection tables, and dragging them into Raven. You can keep several Explorer windows open at once, making it convenient to access several datasets with minimal clicking.

You can reduce the number of paths you need to use during setup by locating things together in your files system. For example, if the root name of your selection table is the name of the sound file it goes with, they will sort together in Windows File Explorer (or Mac Finder). Another way of dealing with this is to make a list file for each set of sound files you have a selection table for, and saving list files with selection tables.
I fully agree that corresponding files should be in the same directory, but this is not how Raven is programmed and not the default setup. That is my whole point.
I create new recording directories on a daily basis. You can't set this directory in the preferences file. It seems to be missing.
On a daily basis
I start by opening a premade workspace with an already open recorder window.
Go to Edit / configure recorder
set "record to" > File sequence
Create and set a new directory on the tab File names
Enter a name describing the experiment in the list file and the sound files field.
Do the experiment and record the sound. Typically between 15 and 60 min recording time.
Do some analysis, select interesting events, make a report in Microsoft office etc. All in the same working directory.

The point is that Raven uses a different path parameter at every point in the program where information can be opened or saved.
E.g. drag and drop or "open" a file. Do some modification, hit "Save as". Now the dialog goes to the path location of the Raven default setting, instead of to the location where the original file was stored.

It would be a lot easier if Raven splits the path from the filename and use that as default or relative "Save as" path for that open sound window. So the Selection table, screen shots, window settings, etc, automatically end up in the same directory as the sound recording.
Storing that kind of information in preference files is bad programming habit in my opinion. Even worse is the fact that many of the settings saving possibilities are redundant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pitzrick View Post


You can activate the autosave feature in Raven Preferences to that it automatically saves each 100 selections by changing

#raven.selectionTable.autoSave.threshold=100

to

raven.selectionTable.autoSave.threshold=100

You can autosave more frequently by changing "100" to a lower number. Note that if the autosave feature is enabled, you will be prompted to name a selection table when you make your first selection.

I hope this helps!

-Mike
I don't have that many selections. During the experiment recording keeping track of what I observe and what did at what moment is difficult. Now I write it down in a lab journal with the filename of the recording and the exact moment in time when the event took place. Later I have to trace this moment back in the sound file, but this is quite difficult and takes a lot of time to do. It does not help that the recorder displays the recording time in a very strange way.
I can probably do this by adding an annotation column in the recorder window and by making and committed selections during recording. This does not automatically reappear in the next Raven session, but by saving the recorder as a workspace with an empty recording It will probably reload the behavior.


-- Femme
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