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  #1  
Old 03-05-2017, 01:29 AM
MANOJ MANOJ is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
Default Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

I am trying to calculate the amplitude/power(in dB) of calls. But the values given by RavenPro1.5 are higher then that of Sound level Meter reading. Is it possible to configure the setting of Raven for getting accurate SPL values.

Thanks for the help in advance.

MANOJ
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2017, 12:46 PM
Michael Pitzrick Michael Pitzrick is offline
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Posts: 233
Default Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Hi Manoj,

If Raven is not calibrated, Raven's dB power and amplitude measurements are relative to an arbitrary reference, meaning that you can make relative comparisons of dB within a recording but *not* absolute dB measurements. To calibrate Raven Pro 1.5 beta, you first will need to characterize your recording equipment to determine the scaling relationship between sound pressure and sample values in your digital recording. Please note that Raven Pro 1.4 does not have a calibration feature. If you want to have Raven calibrate your measurements, you will need to use Raven Pro 1.5 beta.

Step-by-step guide
  1. Open Raven preferences by selecting Edit > Preferences in the menu.
  2. Add “raven.measurement.calibration.enabled=true” to Raven preferences.
  3. Save.
  4. Restart Raven.
  5. Open a sound.
  6. Right-click on view window and select “Calibrate”.
  7. Select Paradigm: "Acoustic"
  8. Set Medium Properties (using “Preset” menu is helpful).
  9. Set known quantities. There are two methods:
  • Method 1 - enter gain of the recording system used in the sound file you are viewing, factoring in your microphone, pre-amplifier, analog-to-digital converter, and any other components. There are two options: "LSB” (least significant bit) and “Full Scale”
  • Method 2 - calibration tone of known RMS or peak-to-peak value. There are two options: "Active Selection Peak" and "Active Selection RMS"
What changes in interface
  1. Y-axis in waveform view
  2. Cursor power
  3. Measurement units in Raven selection table (all power and amplitude measurements)

Raven assumes that the frequency response of you recording system is flat, which is to say that the gain is not frequency dependent. This assumption is, of course, false. If you can, you might be interested to find a frequency response curve for your microphone, preamp and analog-to-digital converter, just to get a sense of which frequencies have a system gain too far from the calibration constant you are using.

Beware, band filtering introduces sound artifacts! It is generally a good practice to limit the bandwidth of your excluded frequencies, and keep the filter frequency bounds as far as possible from the frequency range of your signal of interest.

-Mike

Last edited by Michael Pitzrick : 03-08-2017 at 02:11 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-08-2017, 12:54 PM
lfouda lfouda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 3
Post Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Hi Mike,

I have been having some issues with the calibrations.

I have been attempting to calibrate RAVEN for my sound files. I have a couple of questions and issues I have come up against.

I used the Medium properties for salt water:
  • Reference Pressure: 1 Micro Pa
  • Reference Intensity: 6.452E-19 W/M^2
  • Characteristic Impedance: 1.55 mega Rayls

My system was:
  • Recording format: 16-bit
  • Preamplifier gain: 12dB
  • Sampling rate: 48,000Hz
  • Analog to digital converter: 0.707 V RMS (2v p-p) full scale
  1. With regards to "known quantities, I am unsure what known values from the system to enter.

    When I enter a value for Pressure and press "OK":
  2. Choose Measurement Screen displays no units, everything becomes "(?)"
  3. I cannot get back to the calibration screen. If I select "Calibrate" it does not open. The system freezes. Is this normal or a bug?

Thank you in advance for any insight you can give me,

Leila
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  #4  
Old 03-09-2017, 10:24 AM
MANOJ MANOJ is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
Default Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Hi Mike,

Thanks alot for the guidance. I got the "Calibrate" option in the View tab, but there is no option "Acoustics" in the Paradigm. I did tried the "SOUND" option but the results were not correct.

I had used SennheiserME67 microphone with T722 Sound Device Recorder and recorded the file in.wav format in 44.1Khz Sampling Rate and 16 Bits Depth.

I am unable to understand the Characteristics Impedance option in the "Medium Properties" option.

Thank you in advance for further guidance.

Regards
MANOJ
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  #5  
Old 03-09-2017, 11:41 AM
Michael Pitzrick Michael Pitzrick is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 233
Default Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pitzrick View Post
Hi Manoj,

If Raven is not calibrated, Raven's dB power and amplitude measurements are relative to an arbitrary reference, meaning that you can make relative comparisons of dB within a recording but *not* absolute dB measurements. To calibrate Raven Pro 1.5 beta, you first will need to characterize your recording equipment to determine the scaling relationship between sound pressure and sample values in your digital recording. Please note that Raven Pro 1.4 does not have a calibration feature. If you want to have Raven calibrate your measurements, you will need to use Raven Pro 1.5 beta.

Step-by-step guide
  1. Open Raven preferences by selecting Edit > Preferences in the menu.
  2. Add “raven.measurement.calibration.enabled=true” to Raven preferences.
  3. Save.
  4. Restart Raven.
  5. Open a sound.
  6. Right-click on view window and select “Calibrate”.
  7. Select Paradigm: "Acoustic"
  8. Set Medium Properties (using “Preset” menu is helpful).
  9. Set known quantities. There are two methods:
  • Method 1 - enter gain of the recording system used in the sound file you are viewing, factoring in your microphone, pre-amplifier, analog-to-digital converter, and any other components. There are two options: "LSB” (least significant bit) and “Full Scale”
  • Method 2 - calibration tone of known RMS or peak-to-peak value. There are two options: "Active Selection Peak" and "Active Selection RMS"
What changes in interface
  1. Y-axis in waveform view
  2. Cursor power
  3. Measurement units in Raven selection table (all power and amplitude measurements)

Raven assumes that the frequency response of you recording system is flat, which is to say that the gain is not frequency dependent. This assumption is, of course, false. If you can, you might be interested to find a frequency response curve for your microphone, preamp and analog-to-digital converter, just to get a sense of which frequencies have a system gain too far from the calibration constant you are using.

Beware, band filtering introduces sound artifacts! It is generally a good practice to limit the bandwidth of your excluded frequencies, and keep the filter frequency bounds as far as possible from the frequency range of your signal of interest.

-Mike
Hi Manoj,

I can tell from the fact that you don't have the option "Acoustics" for the Paradigm in the Calibrate Sound dialog, that you don't have the most recent release of Raven Pro. I would recommend re-installing Raven Pro 1.5 using the instructions below.

We're in the process of created more detailed documentation of the Raven Calibrate feature. I should have something to post on this thread in the next day or two.

-Mike

Last edited by Michael Pitzrick : 03-09-2017 at 11:52 AM.
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  #6  
Old 03-09-2017, 12:00 PM
Michael Pitzrick Michael Pitzrick is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 233
Default Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Raven Pro 1.5 Installation Instructions

We recommend that you install Raven Pro 1.5 because it has several features -- and many improvements and bug fixes -- not found in Raven Pro 1.4. If your computer has a 32 bit operating system, you will want to install 32 bit Raven Pro, and if your computer has a 64 bit operating system, you may install both 32 bit and 64 bit versions of Raven Pro. For a comparison of these options, read http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/rav...nloadBeta.html.

In order to use Raven Pro you must first download and install a demo version of the program. To download the demo, visit http://www.birds.cornell.edu/raven, click on the Downloads button on the left side of the web page, and then follow the directions for downloading that are included on that page.

To register your copy of Raven Pro 1.5 and enable all of its features, follow these steps:

1. Download and open one of these Java 8 installers from Java Downloads:
  • Windows Offline - if you are installing 32-bit Raven Pro
  • Windows Offline (64-bit) - if you are installing 64-bit Raven Pro
  • Mac OS X
  • Linux x64

2. Download a Raven Pro 1.5 installer by visiting the Raven homepage, click on "Raven Pro" in the top-right corner, and click on the "full download" link for your computer.

3. Open the Raven Pro installer.
  • Windows tip: Install on the default path
  • Mac OS X tip: Install while logged in as an administrator

4. Open Raven Pro.

5. Copy your serial number and paste it into the Registration GUI.

6. Click the Register button.

The Raven Pro 1.4 user's manual (also essential for Raven Pro 1.5) can be opened from the "Help" menu. You will find information about some new features of Raven Pro 1.5 at http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/rav....5Features.pdf.

The Bioacoustics Research Program offers a five-day introductory-level Sound Analysis Workshop at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology (Ithaca, NY) featuring Raven Pro 1.5. The workshop is offered twice per year (spring and fall), and is intended primarily for biologists interested in analysis, visualization, and measurement of animal sounds. The workshop covers basic principles of spectrographic analysis and measurement of animal sounds, as well as specific tools and techniques in Raven Prof. For more information, please go to http://www.birds.cornell.edu/page.as...3#BRPRevised=2.

To obtain technical support, email raven_support@cornell.edu. We also have a help and discussion forum at http://help.ravensoundsoftware.com/.

You can like us on Facebook at "Bioacoustics Research Program, Cornell" to stay updated on issues related to bioacoustics, whales, elephants, biodiversity, and Raven software.

You can find guidance about how to cite Raven at http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/rav...nCitation.html.

---------------
Raven Project
Bioacoustics Research Program
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca NY 14850

Raven sound analysis software:
http://store.birds.cornell.edu/Raven_s/20.htm
http://RavenSoundSoftware.com

Bioacoustics Research Program and Elephant Listening Project
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/
http://www.listenforwhales.org/
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/elephant/
http://www.facebook.com/BioacousticsResearchProgram/
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  #7  
Old 03-09-2017, 12:02 PM
Michael Pitzrick Michael Pitzrick is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 233
Default Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfouda View Post
Hi Mike,

I have been having some issues with the calibrations.

I have been attempting to calibrate RAVEN for my sound files. I have a couple of questions and issues I have come up against.

I used the Medium properties for salt water:
  • Reference Pressure: 1 Micro Pa
  • Reference Intensity: 6.452E-19 W/M^2
  • Characteristic Impedance: 1.55 mega Rayls

My system was:
  • Recording format: 16-bit
  • Preamplifier gain: 12dB
  • Sampling rate: 48,000Hz
  • Analog to digital converter: 0.707 V RMS (2v p-p) full scale
  1. With regards to "known quantities, I am unsure what known values from the system to enter.

    When I enter a value for Pressure and press "OK":
  2. Choose Measurement Screen displays no units, everything becomes "(?)"
  3. I cannot get back to the calibration screen. If I select "Calibrate" it does not open. The system freezes. Is this normal or a bug?

Thank you in advance for any insight you can give me,

Leila
Hi Leila,

We recently introduced a bug into Raven Pro 1.5 that causes it to behave unpredictably when you apply calibration presets. We are now testing a Raven Pro 1.5 release now that will fix this problem. While you are waiting, you can avoid triggering the bug by not using the presets for Calibration or Medium. Just type in the Medium Properties you told me for salt water, which are correct, and type in a Known Quantity.

The way you posed your question has made us realize that even someone who has done their homework might still be confused about how to set up the Calibrate Sound dialog in Raven. We're working on more detailed documentation, which I should be able to post here in the next day or two. While you are waiting, find your hydrophone specs. You'll need to know the sensitivity.

Thank you for taking the time to include all those details in your question. It was very helpful!

-Mike
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  #8  
Old 03-17-2017, 11:09 AM
lfouda lfouda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 3
Default Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Dear Mike,

Thank you for your reply. I am glad my question was helpful.

I look forward to reading your more detailed documentation for using the calibration tool. Will you post it here or on the website?

Kind regards,

Leila
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2017, 02:28 PM
lfouda lfouda is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 3
Default Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Dear Mike,

I wondered if there had been any progress on the bug fixing of the calibration presets and the more detailed documentation?

Kind regards,

Leila


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Pitzrick View Post
Hi Leila,

We recently introduced a bug into Raven Pro 1.5 that causes it to behave unpredictably when you apply calibration presets. We are now testing a Raven Pro 1.5 release now that will fix this problem. While you are waiting, you can avoid triggering the bug by not using the presets for Calibration or Medium. Just type in the Medium Properties you told me for salt water, which are correct, and type in a Known Quantity.

The way you posed your question has made us realize that even someone who has done their homework might still be confused about how to set up the Calibrate Sound dialog in Raven. We're working on more detailed documentation, which I should be able to post here in the next day or two. While you are waiting, find your hydrophone specs. You'll need to know the sensitivity.

Thank you for taking the time to include all those details in your question. It was very helpful!

-Mike
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:52 PM
Michael Pitzrick Michael Pitzrick is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 233
Default Re: Are value of Amplitude/Power given Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfouda View Post
Dear Mike,

I wondered if there had been any progress on the bug fixing of the calibration presets and the more detailed documentation?

Kind regards,

Leila
Hi Manoj,

The latest release, Raven Pro 1.5 build 37, has no problem applying calibration presets. If you can't get this build through updates, you will have to re-install from http://www.birds.cornell.edu/brp/rav...nVersions.html.

By the way, the calibration feature is still in alpha release, so please take special care to check Raven's calibration to convince yourself that it is correct.

-Mike
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